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Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10: Realistic Start Times in PGA TOUR Season Mode

Posted On: Mar. 6, 2009 2:38 PM EST By: TibMikeD 34 Comments

As we've been discussing in the Staff Group forums, we'd like to start rolling out new TW10 features just as soon as we are given the "OK" to do so.  This blog represents the first in a series of posts in which we will reveal the functionality behind some of the brand new features going into the game.

One of the new things we're implementing in Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 is a new start time system within PGA TOUR Season mode.  This functionality was implemented, in large part, thanks to the feedback and suggestions we receive from all of you.
 
In years past, your golfer would start every round of a PGA TOUR Season event in the final starting position.  In this year's version of PGA TOUR Season we modeled the start time for your golfer after the system used on the PGA TOUR.


In TW10, the player will start each round of the tournament in the following manner:
•    1st Round: Random start time.  The player's start time for the round will be based on a random draw.  The player could be one of the first golfers to go off, or one of the last.
•    2nd Round:  Inverse of 1st round.  The starting order will be the inverse of random order that the first round was played in.
•    3rd & 4th Rounds: Start time based on leaderboard position.  If you are towards the bottom of the leaderboard, you will start the round before those towards the top (and vice-versa).  The starting order is the inverse order of the leaderboard standings.  So, just like in real-life, the top two players tee-off in the final pairing.

This new functionality opened up another cool aspect of tournament golf that we were able to take advantage of.  When you go off in the final starting spot (like in years past), you are the last golfer to finish the round.  You know exactly what score you need to shoot and once you finish the final hole, there are no other scores coming in.  With the new realistic start times there will be occasions when you will not be in the final group and will finish before the rest of the field.  We implemented a screen at the end of each round that will animate to show the movement of the remaining golfers out on the course as the climb and fall on the leaderboard.  If you finish your round before the field you will be taken to this screen, where you can watch the rest of the round play itself out.  Think of it as sitting in the clubhouse waiting for the field to finish.
 
Implementing the new start times feature in PGA TOUR Season also gave us the opportunity to add groupings and pairings to this mode in the same way the PGA TOUR does.
 
In TW10, the player will be grouped in each tournament round as follows:
•    1st & 2nd Rounds: Random groupings of 3.  The player will be playing the round at the same time as the two other AI golfers in their group.
•    3rd & 4th Rounds: Pairings are based on leaderboard position. The player will be playing at the same time as the AI golfer they get paired up with based on their position on the leaderboards.

These additions are a few of the many new features we are adding this year to help bring out the drama of tournament golf.  There are some other new elements that go hand-in-hand with some of the features discussed above which we will cover in subsequent posts.  
Next week the EA SPORTS Season Opener event will be taking place in downtown San Francisco.  This event marks the media unveiling of many new features across a number of the EA SPORTS franchises.  As such Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 will also be opening up many of the new additions we’re adding to the game that we have not been allowed to discuss up until now.  Since we all can’t go to the Season Opener event, I will be creating a special blog entry on March 12th, to give you all an in-depth description of all the new features that are revealed.  I’ll keep you all posted as the date approaches…

Comments

  • JBHuskers said March 06, 2009

    Thanks for the post Mike!  As the PGA Tour Season is the mode I play the biggest chunk of Tiger on, I'm definitely a huge fan of this new feature.  It's going to be fun after signing the scorecard to sit and the clubhouse and sweat out a one-stroke lead.  In addition, it's going to add more of a sense of realism of how tournament play actually works.

  • Volvoluvin said March 06, 2009

    Well done, I think this is a great addition to the season mode.  How will you work the AI to make it feel "realistic" when the user is in the lead at the end and waiting for the other golfers to finish.  I've noticed in 09 that the AI seems to react according to how you are scoring, so in that sense it give you a sense of urgency to maintain your lead as you shoot to win. Something similar to the elastic AI of NFS or other car games...How will this play out in 10?  

  • jarealio said March 06, 2009

    Any chance that we could actually play live with our grouping/pairing? It's really not a big deal for the first two rounds, but when I'm in one of the final pairings on Sunday, I've always thought it would add a lot more life to the game to actually get to see how my playing partner is doing.

  • barry@blbrown.com said March 07, 2009

    Great update.  This is one of the things that always bugged me about season mode, so I'm excited to see this being addressed this year.  I can't wait to hear more about the new features!

  • Oblong said March 07, 2009

    This should liven up the season mode a bit.  

    One thing that has always been bothersome for season mode is that many of us just wipe the field by 20, 30, 40 and more strokes.  Past versions had the rubberband AI which people used to scream about not being fair so it was eliminated.  In TW09 about the best you'll see an AI golfer do in a round is shoot -6 which is never enough to keep up with us better golfers.

    What may work (for future editions) would be for the game to calculate your handicap (or allow you to just enter something in yourself) at the start of the season.  So if I feel I am a -18 golfer, then the AI golfers would perform in that range and below giving me a run for my money in every tournament.  Then as my skills in the game improved I could start the next season at -20 and still find a challenge to win tournaments.

    Thanks for listening EA!

  • hieland soldier said March 07, 2009

    yep yep thanks for listening ea!

  • DlhardUNCFAN said March 07, 2009

    TW 10 will be a true test to see if the Tiger Woods Team listened to what the hardcore gamers said the game needed.

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 07, 2009

    Well it's a good sign that Mike and all the guys at EA have been listening to constructive criticsm through forums and by word of mouth.  Although this is a small bit of news and to be honest should have been in place many years ago, it's finally good to feel like the EA guys are listening.  I can't wait along with my good friends at The Country Club to hear some bigger improvements.  Hopefully we see Tour Pro mode a real challenge now.  

  • hieland soldier said March 07, 2009

    tony from what i have been told your friends at the country club know all about the new features remember who was at the dev day

  • barry@blbrown.com said March 07, 2009

    Agree with the previous posts about the game being too easy in season mode.  It would be great to have some sort of leveling system (as was suggested) so that the tournaments are tight, yet with realistic scores.  You definitely lose a level of realism when you are routinely shooting rounds in the 50's.

  • yesrushdt said March 07, 2009

    Well I prefer playing against a live opponent versus season mode, but I'm sure this will please many of the players out there.  

    My main questions right now are:

    a) When will the PC version come out?

    b) Will it include a new course architect?

    Hopefully a projected release date will be revealed shortly after the EA Sports Season Opener event.  Tim Scott made it sound like the PC version would be released AFTER the console versions.  Would kind of suck after waiting close to two years, but I'd be more than willing to wait if the aforementioned new course architect were to be included.  There are SO many talented designers out there releasing great courses for TW08 week after week. It would be amazing to see what they could do with a new architect on a graphic engine as good if not better than the 360/PS3 versions.

  • JCauthen04 said March 08, 2009

    jarealio, I'm trying to parse Mike's words in his statement to come up with an answer for your question about the ability to play "live" with our grouping in season tournaments.  Read carefully what he said below:

    "1st & 2nd Rounds: Random groupings of 3.  The player will be playing the round at the *same time* as the two other AI golfers in their group.

    3rd & 4th Rounds: Pairings are based on leaderboard position. The player will be playing at the *same time* as the AI golfer they get paired up with based on their position on the leaderboards."

    I read this as having two possibilites:

    1.) You'll actually be playing with an AI "licensed Pro" (one of the couple dozen pros whose liknesses are licensed for use in the game) in the sense in which you're thinking.

    2.) Mike's repeated use of *same time* could mean that the AI player will be represented by the tracer telemetry and icon that we now see in what is called "simultaneous play".  IOW, you may never see the animation of the likeness of the AI player, but you'll see their shot carried out in tracer/telemetry fashion.  If this is the case, it may be that they at least make the order of play abide by the "furthest away" rule, or at least give you the option for it versus pure simultaneous play.

    While I hope it's the former, the latter is certainly an improvement over what we've had for the last 4 years.  

  • SSenator said March 08, 2009

    tour only,

    Even though we are members at The Country Club the same rules apply to them as everyone else.They don't know anything more than anyone else.

    I'm also on XSGA and the same goes for them.

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 08, 2009

    tour.....yes but we have more than Obs, Senator and Divot as members and they are all my friends.  Those 3 obviously know but no other member myself included knows anything at all, and none us have even bothered to pursue the quest for extra info.  We will all find out soon enough.

  • PaulSmart said March 08, 2009

    I have been given a lot of information about the new features. I am a bit annoyed that there were leaks about this game. I was looking forward to all the new suprises now I am dissappointed. Why on earth did you let the "public" have a preview only to let them spoil what would of been such an exciting launch !

    How very irresponsible of you EA. Very bad judgement.

  • MERACE55 said March 08, 2009

    The changes mentioned in this blog are very much welcomed for offline season play.  However, I would like to to see it expanded to an optional online season mode.  It would be similar to what you see in some of the FPS where you can play a campaign either by yourself or online co-op with up to 4 total "live" players.

    -MERACE

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 09, 2009

    WTF are you on about PaulSmartass. Do everyone a favor and give up on TW mate, no one has any time for you.  

  • PaulSmart said March 09, 2009

    Tony, my comments are directed at the EA Development Team. Please keep your childish insults to yourself. They may be welcome amongst your buddies but not here. I am making very serious and valid points. The EA team showed initative by inviting a select few for a preview and too inject some feedback. However unfortunatley "some" of the select few saw fit to leak information to certain people. Myself included. I just wanted EA to be made aware of this. I don't think this warrants any kind of abuse from you "TonyTurbo".

    It is a shame that a useful blog such as this has been hijacked by certain people to use it to insult people.

    Paul.

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 09, 2009

    shush your boring me.  

  • JBHuskers said March 09, 2009

    Now to get things back on track.  I'd like to preface this by saying this feature was not shown at community day so my opinions here of what I would like are pure speculation and something from my wishlist.

    With the the new realistic start time feature in the game.  I'd love to see some sort of television presentation commenting on what's going on in the tournament as my golfer sits in the clubhouse awaiting the results.  I think the combination of "Feel The Drama" with this new feature is going to give us something very interesting.

  • raczilla said March 09, 2009

    Paul,

    Thanks for the comments.  Let's try and keep this discussion on track and about this specific blog.  If you have an issue about the community day, we're happy to discuss that privately.

  • hieland soldier said March 09, 2009

    whatever tony back on track hope you don`t have to play four rounds as it gets boring winning by so many shots

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 09, 2009

    yeah for sure it does.  I think thats why tour pro needs to be made so difficult this year.  It's really no fun hitting -22 for 18 holes on tour pro mode.  We started playing powercap 5 at The Country Club which made the game alot more fun but still very easy to hit -18 even with the distances dialled back.  I would love to feel like a 65 was a real achievement playing tour pro, I can't wait to see some details soon.  I wait with baited breath.  

  • hieland soldier said March 10, 2009

    powercap5 even playing powercap 1 or 2 you can still shoot low 50

  • mikemj23 said March 10, 2009

    While this sounds great in theory - what about the other true tangible things that impact a golfers play depending on start time?  

    -green degradation (spike marks, ball marks all from all the other groups who have already played the holes earlier in the day)

    -dynamic weather changes (British Open is a great example of this) and lighting effects

    -bigger, more dynamic galleries (obviously if you are playing in the final pairings on Sunday)

    -if you are in the final groups and contending more heart pounding, rumble support type stuff (I play on Ps3)

    -again, if you are contending, cut scenes at a Tournament Style leaderboard to show you in real time what is going on with the final groups (say last 5).

    Obviously, if you aren't contending then some of these things shouldn't come into play.  I guess it's cool and all that you aren't always in the "final" group in every round, but did you guys add anything that has a true impact on scoring and playing a round based off of start times?

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 11, 2009

    some good points mikemj23, we shall have to wait and see I guess.  

  • mikemj23 said March 11, 2009

    Just to comment quickly on what JCauthen says above as well.  I guess my comments can all be directed at Tour mode because that is what I spend the majority of my time in and has the most potential for the hardcore players in my opinion.

    I don't think I would want an AI Pro with me in all 4 rounds for every hole in the tourney.  Let's be honest, it adds time to the round and with 2 little ones that is time that I typically don't have.  However, Tour mode quite honestly in the past has gotten very boring.  So along with the things I mentioned above, what about giving the golfer the option in the final round to play with an AI Pro?  Say if you are in the final 5 groups or within 5 or 6 shots of the lead?  I'm sure there is statistical analysis done on how many times a someone has come back from "x" shots back or within a certain number of final groups a golfer has a "realistic" shot at catching the leaders and that could be used to set the parameters for whether or not you have the option to play with a competitor.  If you fall out of the top groups or aren't within a certain number of shots then you play the round as normal and hope to fire a low score and wait while the tournament plays itself out.  

    I just think it would add to the realism and pressure of true tournament golf if you were watching a pro that you were tied with or up/down by a few strokes against going down the stretch.  Drive for drive, putt for putt.  I'm sure it could be done because you play with AI opponents in the Tiger Challenge.

  • ibtcfan said March 11, 2009

    The online feature is where the game is at and the future of gaming so I hope and pray that EA will finally REALLY listen to its long time faithful online gamers.  Little work on the daily, pts lost and earned being rational depending on the situation(win/loss vs opponent skill level and pullers, course glitches.  All the usual over the course of the past yrs since online hit in 04.  I will say this though, for the first time since it appears there is finally an open line of communication between EA and its customers.

  • EAcom Golf Tim said March 11, 2009

    "I don't think I would want an AI Pro with me in all 4 rounds for every hole in the tourney.  Let's be honest, it adds time to the round and with 2 little ones that is time that I typically don't have.  However, Tour mode quite honestly in the past has gotten very boring.  So along with the things I mentioned above, what about giving the golfer the option in the final round to play with an AI Pro?"

    How about the option to have an AI Pro play with you for all 4 rounds. Let the user decide what he/she likes to play and has time to play.

    I haven't found Tour mode boring, but I can see where you are coming from. I am hoping that the "Feel the Drama" tagline has a heavy influence on Tour mode as well as other parts of the game. Great posts guys...keep 'em coming!

  • mikemj23 said March 11, 2009

    Tim - if it can be a user controlled option for every round that would be great.  I guess the concern/hurdle would be that you would have to license a significant amount of PGA Tour pros to keep the pairings somewhat fresh.  Otherwise you would have generic named AI opponents that you would be mostly playing with.  I guess the same thing could happen in the final round as well . . . only being paired with the licensed guys.

    Oh well, Tiger has always been a great game and hopefully the game has been tweaked to be harder and more time has been spent on building up the Tourney atmosphere.  

  • mikemj23 said March 11, 2009

    Guys I gotta admit, I just saw the new preview on IGN and I'm pumped!!!!!!

    Dynamic weather, more broadcast type presentation, bigger tourney crowds . . . now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Definitely looking good and very excited for TW10.

    I'm hoping the difficulty will be ramped up as well . . . I want it to be really an accomplishment to shoot 65 on Sunday.

  • TonyTurbo78 said March 12, 2009

    it sure does mike, i'm very excited at what I saw, most of the things I wanted in a Tiger Woods title have been included which in my view will potentially make it the best golf game ever.  Visuals look very nice as well.  The new putting system should make scoring a little tougher so thats great news.  Looking forward to Mikes next blog entry so we can comment properly.

  • Inside EA said March 12, 2009

    As we discussed last week , we’re going to continue rolling out new features for Tiger Woods PGA

  • Ernest 75 said April 11, 2009

    can't get much more realistic that that.  unless of course, you're going to start having the course get darker for those golfers who tee of last.  (just kidding)