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NHL 10 Fighting and Intimidation

Posted On: Jun. 3, 2009 10:11 AM EST By: sk88z 30 Comments

By Sean Ramjagsingh, Producer

Rammer @NHL10 here to talk a little bit about fighting and how the feature became what it is today.  First and foremost, let me say that we heard you loud and clear.  Fighting in 09 was nowhere near good enough.  It was basically a bad, one off mini-game that meant nothing to gameplay.  (that’s enough about 09.  I can’t even play it anymore after playing NHL10.  It’s an interesting phenomenon that happens every year where you hit a point in development where you can’t go back to the last shipped version…I digress)

As we sat down to discuss the feature set for NHL10, fighting was at the top of the list.  Initially, we weren’t 100% clear where we wanted to go with fighting but we did know a few things:

1.    Fighting had to be overhauled.
2.    We had to innovate.
3.    We had to make fighting true to the sport.

We stayed in a brainstorming phase for a good couple of weeks.  We had lots of great ideas and prototypes (some of which you’ll see in future versions of NHL so I won’t spill the beans right now) but our true turning point came just before Christmas when the Edmonton Oilers were coming to Vancouver to play against the Canucks.  A few of the Oilers were interested in coming by our EA office to get a glimpse of where NHL is made.  Fortunately for us, one of those players just happened to be Zack Stortini.  Who better to talk fighting with than a real NHL tough guy. 

We took the Oilers for a tour and showed them how we take motion capture data and put it into the game.  After all that stuff, I had the chance to grab Zack and talk one on one about fighting.  The first thing I asked is how much strategy is involved in a hockey fight.  Within seconds, we had each other by the collar and he was shoving me around. 

“If I fight a bigger guy, I do this…”

“If I fight a smaller guy, I do that…”

“If I fight a lefty, I dodge this way…’

“If I get a chance. I try to tug and get the guy off balance…”

“If the guy says something about my mom, then I go crazy on him…” (he didn’t actually say this one but we did have some great conversations about some of the ‘conversations’ that happen on the ice)

You get the picture…Zack basically rag dolled me as I took mental notes of how I could apply all of this knowledge to create a compelling gameplay mechanic for fighting. 

When I boiled down all that I had learned, I came up with a two-tiered fighting mechanic.  Layer one is dodging left and right with the Left Stick along with Right Stick punching.  If your opponent dodged to his left (your right), you would have to move the RS to ~2 O’clock in order to hit his head and for dodges the other direction, you would punch towards 10 O’clock.  If two guys wanted to stand in and go toe to toe, they could both push straight up on the RS and see who had the better aim. 

The second tier of the fighting mechanic is a power punch vs tug and upper cut.  Pulling back on the RS will put your player into a position to deliver a power punch that does much more damage than the regular straights.  If you notice your opponent winding up for a power punch, you can tug him forward and get him out of that pose by pulling down on the Left Stick, then deliver an upper cut by pushing up on the Right Stick.

With a mechanic in hand, we had to figure out how to make this experience truly unique and give something that had never been seen in hockey game before.  With the success of last year’s Be A Pro where our goal was to put you in the skates of a professional hockey player, we decided that the next logical step was for us to put you in the skates of fighter.  With that, first person fighting was born.

With number 1 & 2 checked off the list, we were still left with the task of making fighting true to the sport.  Again, Zack Stortini was a huge help in giving me a better understanding of why fights happen and when they occur.  He also spoke to what a good fight was versus a bad fight and what kind of effect fighting had on his teammates.  If we wanted capture the true essence of being a tough guy in the NHL, we had to incorporate these points into gameplay and have it make a difference.   We needed to capture why having a good 3rd and 4th line is important in hockey and even more so, in the playoffs.  There has never been a reason to play your 3rd or 4th line in our game but NHL10 is going to change that.

One re-occurring theme that our fight discussions kept coming back to was intimidation.  Intimidation is a huge part of hockey and will definitely be part of NHL10.  Just to be clear, I’m not talking about gimmicky meters or unauthentic HUD elements, I’m talking about authentic gameplay effects and behavior changes.  Using your tough guys and grinders to finish your checks will start to wear down and intimidate the other team.  The first, second or third big hit might not cause a turnover but eventually you will notice intimidated players rushing passes and D-men slapping the puck around the boards after dump ins instead of trying to pick up the puck and make a tape to tape pass.  You’ll also see intimidated players bobble pass receptions if they’re about to be hit.  When you notice that your players are being intimidated, that’s your cue to get a tough guy out on the ice and try to start a fight to stand up for your team and mitigate your team’s intimidation level. 

Another good time to fight and try to spark your team is when your team is down by a goal or two.  By the same token, if you’re up by a goal or two, you probably don’t want to take a fight and risk giving the other team a spark (although I think it’s pretty fun to beat someone on the scoreboard and in a fight). 

The CPU will also have different fight styles so if you’re fighting a Tough Guy, they’re more likely to stand in and try to go toe to toe but if you’re fighting a player that is less likely to fight, you can expect them to dodge and avoid punches then try and pick their spots with quick counter punches.  And….If you end up in a fight with player that you don’t want to risk injury to (yes, you can get injured from fighting this year), press the LT + RT to turtle.

About one month ago, Zack came back to our office and I showed him what became of our early conversations about fighting.  He loved the authenticity of the fighting and that we were not only capturing the fight but also the reasons behind fighting, intimidation, and the notion of good and bad fights.  I won’t go into too much detail as we captured some video of that day so you’ll be able to hear from Zack himself.

With that, I’m out.  Make sure to follow us on Twitter @NHL10.

Comments

  • Chad Hompington said June 03, 2009

    Fighting makes up < 1% of the game of hockey. Even in NHL 09, you only get in a fight maybe once or twice a game. Why do you continue to focus on fighting and hits and that kind of thing?

    How about you take those resources and create an awesome online dynasty mode like NCAA has a Madden is going to get this year? Hell, sell me that as an expansion. I'd pay $60 for the game and then $20 for an online dynasty or true online leagues with stat tracking and such. You're leave money on the table!

  • swampgobbler said June 03, 2009

    i'm glad that you focused on the rougher side this year.  to make a complete game you have to include everything, and this is the one thing that has been lacking for years.  please tell me that with the new focus on fighting and scrums, that stupid 3 fights a game cap has been removed.

  • ericromain said June 03, 2009

    auchris, who says fighting in NHL10 isn't still 1% of the game? They are boasting 200 gameplay changes and this blog just happens to be about a couple of those.

    You are comparing apples and oranges. The people who work on gameplay elements have nothing to do with the people working on dynasty and online play.

    What's wrong with focusing on hitting? Hitting is a huge part of the game.

  • HankD1974 said June 03, 2009

    Great stuff. I just hope it's not overdone, or done improperly.

    Certain players are impossible to intimidate so I don't want to be up 4-0 with the Wings and suddenly Datsyuk and Zetterberg are bobbling passes or making poor decisions because Leilja got beat-up by Shea Weber.

    I also hope this fighting engine is as fun as the fighting in 2K9. That's the best hockey fighting engine I've ever played with.

  • zfarls@hotmail.com said June 03, 2009

    Fighting is way bigger than 1% of hockey. Also the grinding and wearing people down is bigger than you think. This way the bruins can roll all 4 lines and not rely on savard as there only talented virtual player. This mode should be a fun addition.

    The game was already 95% perfect from last year anyway and this should be a fun addition.

    Only things to fix from last year.

    1. Team on powerplay gets "sucked up screen" leading to too many shorthand goals

    2. Quick Ranked Versus Match- Away Side Controller select- With 3 players the icon colors of blue and purple are too similar. Very small should be easy to update.

    3. Wish list- Fantasy Draft.

    Great Work Guys.

  • FIFFFA said June 03, 2009

    auchris do you even watch hockey or have played any games in the EA NHL series in the last couple years? Fighting in hockey is huge, and when I say fighting, I don't just mean dropping the gloves and throwing them, I mean fighting in general. Like after whistle scrums, facewashing, just jarring back and forth like they do in real hockey. It is a HUGE part of the game dude, it can be the difference from a good team and a great team. You need the toughness, the grit, the FIGHTING! Until NHL10 EA has lacked it entirely, keep it up EA, your heading in all the right directions with this game!

  • stabbytime said June 03, 2009

    I have to be honest - the concept of this all sounds great, but I'm already picturing in my mind how this will become the next big thing to get horribly abused in the EASHL, making it impossible to compete with the '10 equivalent of '09's curve-shot jerks.

    It was already bad enough before patch 1.02 came out with people checking everything that moved and not getting penalized for it.  Especially leveling a D-man at the blue line who doesn't even have the puck, just to set up a breakaway.

    I fear that this whole new game mechanic may add a similar (though differently executed) way for EASHL teams to frustrate and take advantage of their opponents.  If I have to start a fight just to get my team to stop acting intimidated, then I also have to sit out of the game for 5 minutes... that's a huge deal since there are only 6 guys on an EASHL team and no line changes...

  • sk88z said June 03, 2009

    stabby - you make some good points.  Fortunately, when players have to accept a fight so even if you are intimated, if you don't respond, the other person may get penalized if the fight is not accepted.  Strategy does come into play whether or not to fight as Rammer has mentioned.  With penalties after the whistle, the overly aggressive will find themselves short handed more often than not.  Worth the risk?

  • P-Flink11 said June 03, 2009

    Why is the age 19 or older for the EASHL playoffs? Isnt the game made for 10+? If the kid is good enough to be on the team shouldnt he be able to go to Vancouver? mabey not 10 but 15 or so. There are a ton of kids playing this game and a ton of kids who are good at this game. If they are part of a club that is top 8 and have great stats shouldnt they be aloud to play in Vancouver?

  • Shake N Baco said June 03, 2009

    Thank you for focusing on 3rd and 4th line player. Many fans like the tough guys, the grinders, the energy players, but in previous games, there was no reason to play them. Now with improved fighting, intimidation, board play, etc. It will be much more true to real hockey.

  • MR1994Canucks said June 03, 2009

    -Fighting...fantastic! scrum after the whistle great!

    -momentum boosts! we need momentum boosts

    -how about a to many men on the ice penalty once and a while?

    -   if the player is suspended in real life suspend him for online play. Hurt, out in online play.

    -puck hits a ref, make it bounce akward

    -3rd man in, penalty

    -I really want to relive 1994 Nucks vs Rangers....

    Love the game looking forward to 2010

  • FenwayWhalers said June 04, 2009

    Will this game have team builder like NCAA10? It's my only hope of bringing back The Whalers. I ahte that games don't have the make your own team feature anymore. Hoping you guys are bringing that back to all your games now.

  • SilentBTBK said June 04, 2009

    - Online Dynasty!!

    - NHL Playoff Logo under the ice surface (in a post season)

    - cool work yet on the new fans.. BUT.. why are they looking simply straight? like robots, while the play is within the corner in front of the boards.. fans looking Mid Ice Center.. that looks strange, if you ask me - that should be possible with PS3 and XBOX360 hardware to render!

    - 3-4 referees on ice (real feeling)

    - 5 man celebrating, not only 3 guys!

  • stabbytime said June 04, 2009

    sk88z: I guess I'll have to reserve judgement until I see it... especially how it's going to be handled in the EASHL since there's no line changes (at least not in '09...)

    Still, based on all of the exploits/problems with the online game in '09, I guess I'm extremely skeptical of adding any significant new "systems" into the game... I worry about the board play too... who's going to find an exploit to turn it into an easy win every time on the boards, etc... (if there's a stat for it, for example, and it's anything like faceoff... a tiny point advantage equates to a massively lopsided probability of winning)...

    Hopefully all of my concerns will be for naught, and they're on top of it and testing the heck out of it... we shall see!

  • HankD1974 said June 04, 2009

    P-Flink11, because XBL is full of racist, foul-mouthed losers who hide behind their anonymity to act tough without recourse.

    I would never let my kids play no XBL without my supervision until they were in high school.

    The trash you hear on there would make Larry Flynt blush.

  • ejwalk said June 05, 2009

    how about legacy teams... heres an idea ... buy hockeydb.com have rss input and build your team data from hockeydb... than add the legacy uniforms... play the habs in the 30's with aurel joliat...

  • ronin_bane said June 05, 2009

    The thing that annoyed me the most in the last couple of years in the game is that the CPU teams never changed lines, so there best players were always on the ice.

  • Redfield85 said June 06, 2009

    Great to see fighting being implemented like it should be.  Like a few have commented already, hopefully it isn't abused to let teams continuously have an advantage.  Make sure you guys test this out.  I don't want to be forced to fight every game if no one on my team throws hits besides me.  I am wondering if the whole intimidation aspect happens for only a set amount of time, letting teams get back into the fray without having to fight all the time.

  • Snipe_All_Day said June 07, 2009

    Lol if i play the nhl10 demo and the players do not like keep one foot over the blue lines on rushes to stay onside i wont even buy a copy of the game lol they need to put that in its the most annoying little thing left out of the game now.

  • FRA69 said June 08, 2009

    Well I'm quite disappointed by these changes. I'm from Europe where fights are not allowed and I don't want to lose a game because of fights, but I'm ok to lose a game because of teechnical goals.

    However, I'd love post-whistle scrums that would result in penalties for miscoduct for instance. Defending the goalie is fun and realistic.

  • SilentBTBK said June 08, 2009

    How about the main referee (there should be 3 refs in the game now) will announce the penalties by himself? Like they do in real life?

    Earlier, such announcements were made by refs only in American Football, which is really amazing sometimes pumping up or making the homecrowd booing!

    I wouldn't bother if in every game the same referee voice would be used, but that feature would get even more realism to the game.

    Please NHL producers, make the game AMAZING with such details!

    Thanks for reading & have a good week, you are great guys

  • swe_mixon said June 09, 2009

    I must say that I love the ideas for the new features in NHL10 and hopefully the board play feature will ad even more realism to the game of hockey.

    One of the biggest issues (in my opinion) that has not been mentioned from EA but Pavel_Bure said it here, is the players awareness of the blue line. It is very frustrating that the players do not react to the fact that the blue line is just below/behind/in front of them. They should really try to do everything to keep the puck on the right side depending on the situation, just as in real life hockey. Go down on one knee to save the puck from clearing, dive, use the hands, keep one skate on the right side, you name it.

    This is my "must fix" for NHL10.

    On the wishlist for more realism:

    - 4 refs on the ice

    - ref calling the penalty in the PA system (good call SilentBTBK!)

    - dynamic player benches where players stand, clap the stick in the boards at times, follow the play with their body/heads

    - too many men penalties at random times or if I as a user mishandle the change in any way

  • benson8 said June 09, 2009

    PLAYOFF hockey needs to be special and make the fantasy drafts

  • OddyOh said June 09, 2009

    Please tell me there is a "Playoff" mode in the main menu this year...it has been removed for the past few years, and it is unacceptable.  Thanks for putting it back in!  If not, then why not?!

  • AHad21 said June 09, 2009

    I want the defensive to be more active from the points...the only way i can get a point shot in is on pro mode. I want this especially on the powerplay with the D to D passes and D to D one-timers.

  • Born-on-ice-93 said June 16, 2009

    Hey im just throwing out a few ideas, that i have heard many people talk about. You guys should add more realism into the fighting and aggression before and after  the whistle. You should be able to run the goalie(be penalized for it) and the other team should be able to go after that player after the whistle( and be penalized too) If tensions get really high, for example in EASHL...a player gets run over and injured(add injuries to EASHL) the others players on the injured guys team, should be able to start a little fight with the guy for payback. If the puck is covered, and a guy runs into the goalie, there should be little scrums where every player gets in and holds back players while others land just a few shots with the gloves on. My final idea is line brawls for EASHL. If the game is reallly rough( this shouldnt be in every single EASHL game) players should be able to take a cheapshot on another player, which draws everyone into the fight where all the users from both teams end up fighting eachother...this is coming from a hockey player and a true fan...this would be a hit if there was scrums and line brawls...please think about this

  • ReDWiNgs5 said June 21, 2009

    I own the xbox 360 and prefer this console, but my friend wanted me to put out the idea of a nhl game on the wii. although the wii may not have the best graphics, but i do agree that this would be fun. anyways I think glitch goals also need to be taken out.typically these make it wayy to easy to score online.please consider.

  • dirka001 said July 02, 2009

    Man i really think you guys took into consideration the fact that not only is hockey a game about get your team on the board and then try to hold out till the end of the game, but it is very physical and i like the way that you guys are going to make that aspect of the game more realistic. I'm sure instead of 4 out of 5 stars that this year the franchise will get all 5 stars. Also is there anyway you can post a video of a fight get started and a fight after the whistle. Also if you really want to make the game realistic you could have multiple fights going on at the same time that is a huge part of the NHL and its physicality

  • dirka001 said July 02, 2009

    Also could you make it to where when the players stretch or when a goalie hunches over that the names and numbers on there jerseys don't change form or stretch out whenever i would see that in 09 it would sorta take me outta the game.

  • hockeyfight16 said August 16, 2009

    First off Born-On-ice-93 has the exact same ideas i have and i think that would just be so much fun to play with and this is what i had to say for myself aswell   IN General Fighting: I would love to see a more realisitc lead up to a fight. For example- I hit a star player or a have a dirty hit on anyone. I would love to see an opponent skate over and talk to me and challenge me or have the opponent come over and start shaking his gloves trying to get me to ingage in a fight.You see that type of play happen often in a real game. Or in be a pro mode if you are at a faceoff,,i would like to beable to challenge my opponent to a fight right off the draw..that happens a lot in hockey and i think people would really enjoy that. I think first person fighting will be a lot of fun aswell. I have watched the videos and i think its great and very exciting. Also if there would be anychance of a bench clearer in a rivalry game. Maybe get the goalies into a few fights during be a pro mode.

    Other things- Being a hockey player, after scoring a goal its ALL about the celly(celebration). I think that if somehow there would be something where you could create your own celebration or there are celebrations you can pick from once you score a goal. For example, After scoring you could click triangle and you could do a certain celebration.

    -Thanks Guys and born-on-ice-93  i love it man...i wish for the same thing